Half-Assed Crafting: Why Implement It At All?
Interesting Twitter-topic (Twopic?) this morning. Talyn328 mentioned that he agreed with a comment from Jack Emmert (of Cryptic) that “not all online multiplayer games need to have…crafting”. This, of course, got me thinking about the inclusion of crafting in pretty much all MMOs, how these systems are implemented, and whether or not they actually bring anything to the game.
Crafting has it’s fans, and it has it’s detractors. There are people who enjoy the idea of being able to create virtual goods for use or sale, but there are also those who might never touch the crafting system and may find it pointless all together. I, for one, am a fan – usually. In Star Wars Galaxies, I don’t think I ever engaged in combat unless I had to; instead, I scanned and placed harvesters and worked my way through the artisan tree to be able to make vehicles and housing. I hold SWG’s crafting system in the highest regard, because it was so in-depth: the quality of the materials mattered, you could experiment on the blueprint, and any items made bore your name. You could make a name for yourself if people realized your goods were always of top quality.
But most of the crafting systems we have today seem “tacked on”. They involve hoarding materials, buying a recipe and slamming the two together to get a product…the same product…all the time. There’s no chance of failure, it’s 100% mechanical and very lightweight. How does this kind of system benefit the player base, crafting-minded players, or the game as a whole?
Crafting can play a beneficial role. Goods produced can be used by players, or can be sold on the auction houses to generate cash flow. The experience of simple systems like those found in World of Warcraft or Lord of the Rings Online fall far short of what SWG, Vanguard or EverQuest II offers. In the latter, players can actually play the game and advance strictly through crafting. I believe that crafting systems which allow players to play without having to resort to the usual formula of “kill X rats” is very appealing to players who enjoy the crafting experience, and as a true avenue of alternate advancement, should be something that receives more focus from developers in the future.
Games which “half-ass” their crafting systems (like WoW) might as well not even have crafting systems at all. Star Trek Online has crafting, but it’s so weak that it’s hard to find a reason why it exists. As Talyn328 put it, some crafting systems “did not need to be there at all within the design/lore of the IPs.” Generally, I think that any IP can explain away why crafting is present, but STO’s system exists simply because someone, somewhere decided that crafting had to be there to satisfy the “MMO Feature Checklist”.
This is a hard habit to break, and I think it’s where Mr. Emmert’s comment comes into focus. As much as I enjoy robust crafting systems, having simplistic systems for the sake of having a crafting system – or to paraphrase a Bioware developer who explained in an early dev video that Star Wars: The Old Republic would have crafting “because other games have it” – is a real disservice to everyone, both crafters and non-crafters. Crafters who are hoping for real, in-depth systems feel let down by a simple building-block system, and those who are interested in other game play systems might actually have had more content available had a segment of the design and development team not had to spend time creating and developing a crafting system.
In the end, I agree with Mr. Emmert. Not every game needs to have crafting, especially if it’s going to be overly simplistic and present as an afterthought. If a game is going to feature crafting, why not make it a first tier experience like combat or raiding? Make crafting necessary and relevant to people, not just as a puzzle piece to get people to socialize. If the design cannot fit a robust crafting experience into it’s design, then anything less is just busywork.
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No, nothing is 100% one side or the other. There are certainly those people who LIKE WoW crafting…but there’s probably a high percentage of those who either dislike EQ2/VG crafting systems because they’re too “complex”. Conversely, as someone who likes the mini-game style systems offered by EQ2/VG/SWG, systems like WoW are pointless and are just “busy work”. The general point of the post is that crafting systems are added to appeal to crafting types, who, when looking for a game with good crafting, gravitate more towards EQ2/VG then they do WoW/LotRO when crafting is a deciding factor.
I have so many friggin linen bandages in WoW…why? Not because I use them, but because I have to grind these things to raise my skill so I can work silk. At that point, I’ll have to grind THAT to make something more worthwhile. That isn’t crafting; it’s a distillation of one of the most reviled MMO systems — grinding — pretty much for it’s own sake.
Do I need to craft in WoW? No, it’s not why I play WoW, and more often then not, I totally forget to craft AT ALL. In that regard, I don’t think the game would be any less if they never included it at all.-
#3 written by Pasmith 2 years ago
Sure, but that’s you. Blizzard isn’t making a game just for you. It’s trying to appeal to a broad demographic.
If you don’t like the crafting system in a game, it’s easy enough to ignore. Leave it to people who enjoy it.
I hate playing diminutive races like Gnomes (sticking to WoW for now). That doesn’t justify an argument that Blizzard shouldn’t waste time making diminutive races.
Now if the game *requires* crafting and doesn’t do a fantastic job with it, then I can get behind your arguments. But as an optional activity, I think crafting is a good thing even if it isn’t an extensive system.
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@Pete: my argument (and probably Scopique’s as well to a degree?) isn’t whether people “like” crafting in WoW, etc. You can give people pretty much anything and someone will figure out how to have “fun” with it.Blizzard themselves is on record saying crafting is in WoW as a timesink. The end.What I was (as usual) unable to say in 140 characters is that not every IP or MMO needs crafting or PvP.1) Star Trek Online: how much “crafting” did we ever see in Star Trek? Tom Paris in Voyager took spare parts and built his own little custom shuttle thing out of it but otherwise, nada. In STO, regardless of which “class” we choose, we are the captain of the ship. In Trek, ships have their engineering crews to deal with modifications and repairs to the ship. In STO we have NPC crewmembers, one (or more) of which are assigned as engineering crew. Therefore no “crafting” needs to be in STO at all; the NPCs can “repair/tweak” your ship and replicators can make “stuff” for you, just like they did on TV.2) Tabula Rasa (RIP): Your character was a member of the military in a war against the alien Bane. Not some random adventurer. Military requisition their gear, they don’t “craft” it from mining herbs and ores. Don’t even get my started how PvP did not fit the game’s lore at all but was added simply to satisfy some “MMO checklist.”3) Warhammer: Again, your character is NOT (supposed to be anyway) some random adventurer, he is a member of that faction’s military fighting against the other side. As an aside, I think it’s fine for the military types to be able to make say, bandages or healing salves, but not a full “crafting system” (not that WAR necessarily has what most would consider a “full” system).For that matter, all STO players are in the military, either Federation or Klingon, where gear is requisitioned. All that could be done via “ranking up” in all 3 examples as a reward system rather than including “half-assed crafting” as a *drumroll* timesink.But then I am inclined to think that what I consider a “real” crafting system doesn’t work so well in the MMOs with the Diku leveling system. Vanguard and EQ2 have slightly more complicated crafting *systems* but fell into the same trap as other DikuMMOs where only a scant handful of items had any use at all, otherwise the entire system was nothing more than a time (and money) sink.
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#5 written by Pasmith 2 years ago
Perhaps you missed this line in my comment:
“I do agree that not every game needs to have crafting… that’s self-evident. ”
But Scopique says “having simplistic systems for the sake of having a crafting system … is a real disservice to everyone, both crafters and non-crafters.”
And that’s the point I was rebutting. I guess they’re a disservice to him, since he doesn’t enjoy them. But it’s equally as clear that other people (myself included) do.
Y’know there’re plenty of people in the world who look at the whole concept of playing an MMO as a huge and pointless time sink. So you, or even the devs, labeling an activity a time sink doesn’t nullify that activitie’s value to people who enjoy that activity.
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Oh I think the simplistic systems can be fine. I mean… even for those who like crafting, I don’t know that all of them would necessarily want to spend that same amount of time with a SWG or Vanguard type of crafting system. Maybe that’s what made crafters in those games more special, because they took the dedication and attentiveness to a whole new level that isn’t there in the simplistic systems that are more popular. Mastering crafting took nearly the dedication of a hardcore raider, whereas in the more casual MMOs everyone can master everything with much less effort (*sigh* I dislike having to use phrases that make gaming sound like work) and time.
Again you seem almost angry with me when I am agreeing with you? But I am also trying to divide my points from enjoyment of any crafting system. MMOs themselves are a timesink. Raiding is a timesink. Crafting is a timesink. But we all enjoy and love some or all of those aspects, and more, despite that.
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#8 written by Song7 2 years ago
Crafting in games like WoW always felt rather ho-hum. Not that they are bad they just feel uneventful. Games like DFO have such a deep reward to them and are (I think) the best items in the game. Which give it purpose and having your name attached to a high quality Rank50 item gives your craft meaning. Add in the possibility to fail at making the items and you give the players a well rounded experience.
I hope to see more depth in crafting, though it looks unlikely.
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#9 written by Zed 2 years ago
I have to agree that most crafting systems I’ve seen in action are nothing more than a way to waste time. If more games chose to make crafting an actually valuable use of time (from a game economics point of view) and/or at least as interesting as your typical quest chain — or skip crafting entirely if they can’t afford the dev cycles to do it — that would not be a bad thing to my way of thinking.
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For me to buy into your argument, you’d have to demonstrate to me that no one enjoys crafting in WoW. I haven’t found that to be the case.
You and Talyn might not like crafting in WoW, but as long as a reasonable proportion of the playerbase enjoys it, then it’s a good thing to have.
Crafting, even half-assed crafting, is a good ‘down time’ activity for a lot of people. You’re waiting for friends to get online, or just having a conversation and want to do more than just have your character sitting there.
When I played WoW, I enjoyed the ‘quests’ of going around looking for recipes for my Cooking skill. As a solo player I ate a lot and being able to create my own food was satisfying to me.
I do agree that not every game needs to have crafting… that’s self-evident.
Now, if Blizzard was using the crafting system as a major selling point for WoW, I’d be in agreement with you. It isn’t a primary reason to play the game. But it adds some variety, and with the amount of time we spend in these games, variety is important.